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OK. Well, wait, let me back off a little here. What you are saying goes back to the idea that there is a separation between facts and values.

I know that not all philosophers accepts the idea of a complete break -- a sort of crack in the universe, so to speak -- between facts and values. But I'm actually kind of sympathetic to that view.

So when it comes to social ideals or visions, I would agree that science can't give us the complete answer.